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I Think Barnum Underestimated
Kashonia spent AU$12,000 to travel from Australia to the U.S. to attend a workshop called Experience the Reality of Success. Then she got upset because of the presenter’s “total misrepresentation of his workshop. . . . In ‘reality’ we all experienced the reality of begging, not the promised reality of vibrational manifestation.“
Kashonia wants her money back. Because “whilst it’s true that we did start with nothing, what we did was to go out on the streets and beg for money. That was the way we were to “manifest” the money. There is a BIG DIFFERENCE between vibrationally manifesting money and begging for money on the streets.” Yes, the rubes who had paid to go to this workshop were actually sent out onto the streets of Las Vegas to ask strangers for money.
Hmmm. You cause your vocal cords to vibrate and form the words, “please give me money”; a stranger gives you money. That sounds like vibrational manifestation of money to me.
But, hey, I live in the real world, where people work for a living. I’m not a mental health professional, so I can’t say for sure that she’s batshit insane/ Instead, I’ll just say that she is living in a different world. Kashonia’s long post reveals how clueless the greedy can be in their search for money for nothing. Her greed seems pretty benign—hapless rather than avaricious—but someone who spends 12 grand to learn how to “vibrationally manifest[] money”:
- Is well-advised to always set off the word “reality” with doubt quotes;
- Will always be an easy mark for a conman; and
- Has no right to complain when someone else gets money from her for nothing.
6 responses to “I Think Barnum Underestimated”
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I understand your frustration with Internet hucksters as well as the gullible and greedy who succumb. Nevertheless, in this situation, I don’t agree that Kashonia “has no right to complain” because the seller offered a money back guarantee – and she was merely attempting to exercise that right.
According to Kashonia’s post, the copy for the program that she attended said the following:
we called it Experience the Reality of Success, because that’s exactly what you do. You experience it for real. We actually show you how to manifest money from nothing – bang!
Now you might say, it’s got to be some sort of dog and pony show. It’s a trick.
No it’s not. We actually do it. You start with nothing and manifest money. You really do. And if I’m lying or exaggerating you can have your money back” (The Art of Success [AOS] teleseminar Session 4 about 1hr.12mins in).The “money back guarantee” is a tool frequently employed by info-product providers – both legitimate ones, as well as the nut jobs. In fact, the guy who Kashonia describes continues to use the money back guarantee offer in his marketing materials – see here – http://www.davidneagle.com/7secrets/ The money back guarantee is a way of luring purchasers to shell out thousands of dollars by assuring them that there’s little risk. However, those who offer the money back guarantee are betting that most purchasers will be too ashamed to honor it and won’t even ask to do so. As for those who go so far as to request their money back, the providers will either strong arm them (by saying that it was the purchasers fault that they didn’t learn anything) or, as in this case, go so far as to call out the lawyers.
A money back guarantee is an inducement. If people were truly as greedy or gullible as you suggest, the hucksters wouldn’t need the offer a money back guarantee because people would just fork over their money. And if providers are going to offer money back and guarantees and get the benefits of added sales, they should certainly take the hit when they don’t honor those guarantees.
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Mark Bennett December 20th, 2009 at 19:09
The guarantee, in this case, was not “satisfaction guaranteed” but “if I’m lying or exaggerating you can have your money back,” which might have prompted the non-delusional consumer to consider how “You start with nothing and manifest money” could be literally true but not desirable, as here: Kashonia manifested $69 in 45 minutes. Since Neagle wasn’t lying or exaggerating, he owes Kashonia nothing.
Show me a case where the scammer actually violated his money-back guarantee, and I’ll concede that the scammed has a legal, if not an ethical right to complain. This does not appear (from Kashonia’s blog post) to be the case here, and I seriously doubt that you’re going to find a lawsuit-worthy defendant scammer whose guarantee was not literally fulfilled.
Why not? Because people really are as greedy and credulous as I suggest; if they weren’t, Neagle would have had to have lied to take Kashonia’s money.
Kashonia doesn’t realize it, but she’s been given an excellent lesson in manifesting money from nothing: it’s what Neagle did to her.
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Thanks for the publicity and adding to the publicity and life of my post.
http://www.kashonia.com/summary/david-neagle-experience-the-reality
You and also Mark (or are you one and the same person) do have a couple of points that are incorrect that I’ll just hightlight if I may.
1. I said in the post, and you even quoted, “There is a BIG DIFFERENCE between vibrationally manifesting money and begging for money on the streets.”
And if you read the full quote that I included in the post of Neagle’s “promise”, then you’d realise that my $69 in 45 minutes was definitely not a spiritual vibrational manifestation. As I said, if that’s all there is to spiritual manifestation then millions of people living on the streets in India would be very wealthy indeed.
So for you to argue in such a very weak way that “your vocal cords … vibrate and form the words, “please give me money”; a stranger gives you money. That sounds like vibrational manifestation of money to me.”
Doesn’t demonstrate a great deal of understanding about any of this.
Be that as it may, in any case, after the workshop Neagle said in a teleseminar that the exercise was NOT about manifesting. So he admits it himself that his key manifestation exercise was not about manifesting.So that’s that point sorted out.
2. I also said in the post that it was NOT so-called greed and the desire to get money for nothing that took me to the workshop.
What I said was “I’ve studied the works of most of the top Law of Attraction teachers and none of them give you the experience that David ‘promised’. I wanted to experience that missing piece that no other teacher teaches. [and I wanted that teaching from an academic, learning perspective]
… Because I believed David’s deceptive hype and his promises, I was prepared to travel half way across the world, taking 10 days out of my life, and spend $12,000 because I was going to learn that missing ingredient.”Because I’ve been teaching human potential for about 20 years, I’m always interested in what someone else is teaching.
So I wanted to learn what “no one else teaches”. That was Neagle’s promise. Yet he definitely did not deliver.
3. “batshit insane”? – I’ll admit to rather eccentric. But as I always say, I’d rather be eccentric than boring. And “clueless and greedy” well you couldn’t be further from the truth.
4. The post was definitely not a poor victim me I want my money back post. By the time I wrote the post, I had no expectations what so ever that I’d get my money back. My interactions with Neagle’s lawyer made that very clear. And as those interactions were many and over the period of about a month, it must have cost Neagle a fortune.
Instead, I wrote that post because I’m fed up with people taking advantage of others and making promises, especially in business, that they don’t keep. AND it is a highly illegal thing to do too.
Neagle made a lot of promises. None of them eventuated, including our money back if we didn’t get what he promised. And I was not the only person to get a lawyer’s letter instead of a refund.
However, my post has been extremely successful and satisfying.
It is normally at the very top of page one on a Google search – above Neagle’s own website. And that’s an achievement in itself.PLUS I have clearly demonstrated to most people Neagle’s appalling business acumen to the point that it’s cost him well over $100K in lost revenue. And I think that’s a pretty successful post, don’t you?
Oh and Mark – believe me there were so many lessons I’ve had from the entire experience that it could easily argued that I certainly got my money’s worth.
But as none of those lessons are in any way related to Neagle’s promises, I wrote the post to highlight the lack of integrity that this man has, who continually preaches about living a spiritual life in integrity.
Kashonia
http://www.kashonia.com/summary/david-neagle-experience-the-realityPS – Seeing as you don’t have your name on your blog – who ever you are – I have to wonder if Neagle himself put you up to writing this post.
It’s about up to his standard-
Mark Bennett December 21st, 2009 at 10:39
You’re welcome. It doesn’t make me unhappy that you’ve cost Neagle over $100k in lost revenue, nor that his lack of integrity (I wouldn’t argue that taking advantage of suckers with promises that are literally true but misleading shows anything other than lack of integrity) has been publicized by your post. I’m glad to do my own small part so that others don’t throw money away on nonsense—I appreciate the power of the internet to reveal frauds and charlatans.
Even if they agreed that Neagle was bound to your definition of “vibrational manifestation,” I don’t think a jury anywhere in the US or Australia would have a lot of sympathy for your predicament. At a certain point, grownups have to take responsibility for their belief in fairies.
Mark.
p.s. I didn’t realize that this WordPress template didn’t show author names; thank you for letting me know. Yes, I’m Mark Bennett; I also blog at Defending People.
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Hi Mark,
Yes I really did think we were on the same side here. And even though I am a pacifist I did think I should clear up a few points.
And I’ll agree to disagree that Neagle’s actions didn’t live up to his words. And the FTC Act is not about a literal translation of promotional speak – but is all about “misleading” people by what is said.
So I think I would have a pretty good chance in court with the FTC Act. However, going to a court was never a consideration. Go to court and giving lawyers of questionable integrity even more money. No way.
As you mentioned above – I knew I could be FAR more affective in what I wanted to do – expose Neagle for what he is – via the internet. And so far, I’m doing it very well indeed.
You know Mark, that’s what really makes my head spin. With the Internet people just can’t afford to do the wrong thing. I just can’t understand why they persist. But I guess you only have to fool some of the people some of the time to make a fortune.
Good to catch up
Kashonia-
“You only have to fool some of the people some of the time to make a fortune.”
That’s like the codicil that Lincoln never said, but should have. I’m going to call it Kashonia’s Rule of Fools.
And now I’m sorry I was so hard on you.
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Carolyn Elefant December 20th, 2009 at 16:39